Petrarchive – Meaning and signs in the contemporary world

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No.10369 Anonymous
Meaning and signs in the contemporary world
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I’ve been thinking about cultural meaning and how it’s found in things like art and literature beyond the immediately individual and subjective, and so wish to brainstorm a bit to stir conversation. The motivation here is the prevalence of (cultural) nihilism, decline in literacy; the broad appeal of art and literature. I apologise if this is sophomoric and uninformed, but I’m not writing a research paper here!

It’s clear that much (all?) of meaning is purely relational, wherein something is valued individually because it is valued broadly. Something held as a strong social signifier by those with high status, and then by those in the lower classes wish to signal in kind to their peers. The primitive itself doesn’t matter very much for this—It may even have no meaning. I would of course like to immediately dismiss the notion of nihilism as anything but entirely ruinous and destructive, even if meaning can be considered arbitrary, because human emotion has an inherent value to humans; even a false mythology can enrich countless lives.

So anyway, we’re past the age where any kind of credible elite could boast an “aspirational” set of cultural traits as intermediaries to “power and wealth,” and guidance by a few is replaced by an algorithmic-democratic arbitration. The question I come to is: how on earth could something like literature ever regain its prestige as a means toward intellectual and humanistic development in a world where the mechanisms for the broad valuation of a single thing have been dismantled or fundamentally transformed? Maybe I’m missing the forest for the trees by not calling “material conditions,” but it seems to me social media only accelerated these very slowly dwindling values that no longer had a source. Or, education has become so specialised that the expert gains no social capital and can neither understand nor be understood by any other outside his field. “Polymath” doesn’t mean as much “broad education” as “the ability to stay away from screens” and “self-control.” What great values will arise in a social media world where social signifiers are largely artificial and falsifiable?

I’m just lately concerned with the feeling that no one much cares for anything anymore and wondering how I’m supposed to, either. If all the ancient social valuations disappear, how does anyone dedicate themselves to anything without finding it pointless? The reason the for the decline in e.g. the youth playing instruments is not that the kids are lazy and stupid, but because great signs of meaning have broken down into much smaller ones. What’s next?
No.10371 Anonymous
>how on earth could something like literature ever regain its prestige as a means toward intellectual and humanistic development in a world where the mechanisms for the broad valuation of a single thing have been dismantled or fundamentally transformed?

I think LLMs and copyright are going to force the issue. The machines of industry largely freed our bodies from work. We ended up with a curve where to have a healthy body was a sign of one of the extremes in class, while the middle became largely divorced from theirs. You're going to see the same things as LLMs compete with and replace (largely linguistic) cognition.

People are going to get dumber. The upper class will retain an attitude of prestige towards intelligence and sophistication, the lower class will have to retain its general intelligence, but the large middle class will get dumber and less sophisticated. The hard pill there to swallow is probably the lower class bit, but bear in mind I'm talking specifically about the kind of intelligence that LLMs exceed in, not general intelligence. You're going to see greater appreciation for generalists, not something specific.

Will we see more coal miners reading the Bhagavad Gita? I don't know, but it wouldn't shock me.
No.10376 Anonymous>>10383
>I would of course like to immediately dismiss the notion of nihilism as anything but entirely ruinous and destructive, even if meaning can be considered arbitrary, because human emotion has an inherent value to humans; even a false mythology can enrich countless lives.

Right but this is still nihilism. "We choose to believe these things not because they're true but because they're false"
No.10383 Anonymous
>>10376 I was hoping my idealistic claim that there’s undeniable value in human internality would be enough to counterbalance it. The whole statement was more to discourage the sort of social nihilism people hide behind—that it’s not enough that some things are arbitrary, but they must also be considered meaningless insofar that there’s no point in providing value to people’s lives. The whole post is about this struggle to create meaning in a world that has to such an extent destroyed the credibility of both mythology and objective value.
No.10387 Anonymous
>how on earth could something like literature ever regain its prestige as a means toward intellectual and humanistic development

It's silly to expect you're going to get prestige for literature within this lifetime. Something like poetry will re-emerge and does emerge, at least from meme culture and from hip-hop. Everything else is getting washed away.

The basic reality of the situation is that McLuhan and Ong were right. The printing press made the West into a visually literate culture. If that wasn't dead after the radio, cinema, and TV it's certainly dead now.

Think of classical modern literature (novels, lyric poetry, etc.) kind of like any other outmoded form of culture. It's like knitting, or morris dancing, or hunting. There will be a subculture that will sustain it for a time, and then somewhere along the line it will be folded in as a sub-interest for some other retro subculture, and maybe it will survive somewhere in that gene line -- like how lorimers have kind of survived as an auxilliary to horse culture. Or maybe it will simply disappear, like fusteria.
No.10394 Anonymous
I don't think writing and forms of literature will ever cease as long as humans are speaking.